Cutting Edge .308 / 220 gr Lazer Test and Review

Broz

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I have been working up a load for the new 220 Grain Cutting Edge Lazer. The Lazer line from CEB is their lathe turned tipped hunting bullet. Many Lazers, like the 220 gr 30 cal., are for single feed applications. The recommended twist rate for the 220 Lazer is 1 in 9 or faster.

I have been testing these in an Axial Precision Himalayan chambered in 300 RUM. 26" 1 in 9 twist barrel.

My loads are in ADG Cartridge Brass. A CCI 250 Primer, the 220 gr CEB Lazer on the lands, and VihtaVuori Powders N-570.

I started load work up (ALWAYS WORK UP TO A SAFE CHARGE WEIGHT) at 89 gr till I saw first signs of pressure. I saw the first shawdow of an ejector mark with a magnifying glass on the load pictured below. Bolt lift on all shots were easy and smooth as butter. Primer has a flat face but still rounded corners.

All indications are that these are very fast bullets. I suspect that is from the short bearing surface and seal tight band.

What I do know about the CEB Lazer Tipped bullets, from my ELR use of their 400 GR .375 bullet, is that they are among the very best in terms of consistency. Their BC's are very stable and they pass through the sub sonic transition great. These bullets have produced the very tightest vertical spread as anything I have ever shot.

Soon I will be doing some rough testing to come up with an estimated BC. This will only be my estimation calculated from velocity and drops. Not the most scientific estimate, but one that should be an indicator of what this bullet has to offer and should be fairly close.

Update: I submitted my numbers to CEB and we agreed the 220 lazer initial testing is showing .645 for a G1 and .320 for a G7.

Jeff

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NEMTHunter

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Jeff you have my attention. I could only think how fast they would leave my Gun. Your shot drops are good enough to me.

Very nice ES and SD.

After seeing this I am sure your .300HCM will move the 240 3300 plus. Should be Easy for it.
 

Broz

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Jeff you have my attention. I could only think how fast they would leave my Gun. Your shot drops are good enough to me.

Very nice ES and SD.

After seeing this I am sure your .300HCM will move the 240 3300 plus. Should be Easy for it.

If the 300 HCM sends the 240's at 3300, wow, that will be a force to recon with. :cool:
 

NEMTHunter

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If the 300 HCM sends the 240's at 3300, wow, that will be a force to recon with. :cool:

Indeed it will be. Cant wait!
 

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Do I understand the design of the CE bullets correctly? The driving band is what makes contact with the lands? Does it require a special reamer to accommodate the design and stay close the lands?

Thanks
 

Broz

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There is a "Drive Band" area in front and behind the "Seal Tight Band". The drive band is caliber size or just under. In front of that is the bore rider portion.

I am shooting these is two rifles so far, soon to be 3. No special reamers were used. I am sure they are like any bullet and can be optimized with the right throat length. But at this point I have not seen a need to alter what I have.

bullet-design_zpsrpitbqms.png
 

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I shot the 150 grain Raptors for a few years out of my 300wm Jeep rifle. Devastating on game. Plan on loading the Maximus line for a .270 Win Jeep rifle I put together.


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Broz

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A few things from the last two days of shooting.

1: If you have mirage, and the aim point won't hold still, expect larger groups. I don't know how many times I have to learn that.

2: Velocity nodes are important, and never forget to adjust neck tension. I reduced group sized to 1/2 with .001" less neck tension. This is why we anneal. I had to repeat the test twice to be sure.

So I have the CEB Lasers in a reasonably wide node, where average Velocities with up to .5 gr charger weights are the same. ES is pretty much single digit on average. The last groups were ES of 6, 8, and 13.

A final zero check then on to a little BC calculations.

Jeff

20190403_173149_zpsspquqm3a.jpg
 

BackCountryMeats

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Looks like it’s going to be a shooter! If the 220 lazers perform as advertised, that will be one hell of a Elk / Bear rifle. I believe they advertise expansion down to 1200 fps for the lazer line. I am looking forward to watching / reading about this rifles future in the woods.


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NEMTHunter

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The 1200 FPS mark is a good selling point for me. That effectively extends the range you can count on the bullet to take game. Going from 1600fps to 1200fps extends the range a lot.
 
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Broz

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That is impressive for sure. 1200 fps impact velocity is a long ways out there.

But for me, it is the consistency in bullet to bullet design, and the fact that bullet to bullet BC is very very consistent. This means less vertical dispersion. That to me is an important part of the battle for most hunting and target bullets.

Jeff
 

BackCountryMeats

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I agree, consistency is huge and most important factor in regards to precision at distance. Although in regards to the 1200 FPS minimum expansion velocity, when does impact energy get taken into consideration? I wonder what the energy of these 220 Lazers will be at the 1200 fps mark.


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pawater

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Thanks, I visualized it slightly different. I didn't realize it had the driving band.

There is a "Drive Band" area in front and behind the "Seal Tight Band". The drive band is caliber size or just under. In front of that is the bore rider portion.

I am shooting these is two rifles so far, soon to be 3. No special reamers were used. I am sure they are like any bullet and can be optimized with the right throat length. But at this point I have not seen a need to alter what I have.

bullet-design_zpsrpitbqms.png
 

bigbulls

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Why does it say on there website single feed only? Can these not be used in a magazine? if so that doesn't seem very useful for hunting. I'm sure I read it wrong but if they are just a long bullet I think on would describe them a little different. Looks like these might be another great choice. Tagging on
 

Broz

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Why does it say on there website single feed only? Can these not be used in a magazine? if so that doesn't seem very useful for hunting. I'm sure I read it wrong but if they are just a long bullet I think on would describe them a little different. Looks like these might be another great choice. Tagging on

My OAL touching the lands is 4.167" They are intended to be single feed. This doesn't bother me in the least for a long range hunting rifle. I can easily slap a two round holder on the side of the rifle near the ejection port and have two back up rounds ready t go. Some of my favorite rifles were built as single shots. In fact I am building another one now.
 

Broz

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hi Jeff! so, after your testing, what's the average bc?

So far, after reviewing my test results and having Dan at CEB work the math too. It appears the .308 / 220 gr Cutting Edge Lazers from my rifle are running .645 for a G1 and .320 for a G7. This was testing from 500 to 1550 yards.

Now you see what Hornady is saying about their A Tips having Consistent BC's, Cutting Edge has been working on this for years. The reason you see all the wins in ELR matches with the Lazer Max line from CEB is because the BC's are very very consistent.

Jeff
 
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Theodoreh

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Hi Jeff,

How is the terminal performance of these lazer bullets on elk or other wildlife?

-Theodore
 

Broz

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Hi Jeff,

How is the terminal performance of these lazer bullets on elk or other wildlife?

-Theodore

As for us personally we lack in actual field experience, but the reports from others are great. That is going to change soon, our editor Jordan Kauer is hunting with the 220's this fall starting in Sept with a bear hopefully. Then de has a few deer tags and an elk tag.

I have a lot of bullet testing to do, but I may take an elk with them as well and I think Daniel is going to hunt with them too in his 338 Terminator.

Jeff

Here is a video of a CEB Lazer on a deer at 730 yards.

 

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I look forward to reading the review on these lazer bullets terminal performance here.

Cool shot on that video.
 

Broz

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Hi Jeff,

How is the terminal performance of these lazer bullets on elk or other wildlife?

-Theodore

No terminal data from our rifles yet. Our seasons open in a few weeks. LRO editor Jordan Kauer should have some data soon with the 220 Lazer's from the Axial Precision 300 RUM
 

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Hi Jeff,

How is the terminal performance of these lazer bullets on elk or other wildlife?

-Theodore
This hunt didnt exactly turn out as I planned. Glassed this buck up around 2300 yards away. Got on a ridge where I thought I could get around a 600 yard shot at this guy and a blizzard moved in, not wanting him to get away I went a snuck in where he bedded and luckily spotted him before he spotted me at about 60 yards. Needless to say he didnt get out of his bed. The shot was uphill and he was slightly quartering too me.
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This hunt didnt exactly turn out as I planned. Glassed this buck up around 2300 yards away. Got on a ridge where I thought I could get around a 600 yard shot at this guy and a blizzard moved in, not wanting him to get away I went a snuck in where he bedded and luckily spotted him before he spotted me at about 60 yards. Needless to say he didnt get out of his bed. The shot was uphill and he was slightly quartering too me.
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Nice Buck!
 

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Nice buck! This is the very first terminal report I ever seen from any lazer and looks like it did good!
 

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Nice buck! This is the very first terminal report I ever seen from any lazer and looks like it did good!
Thanks! Super stoked to have a chance at a buck like that. Drew a extra doe tag as well going to take the boys out this weekend and see if I can test them out at a little longer range. Then have another buck tag I'm heading out Nov 3 -16 on.

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Super nice buck��. Mind sharing caliber, weight and velocity?
 

Spdrman

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Super nice buck��. Mind sharing caliber, weight and velocity?
This is the 300 RUM Axial Precision Rifle Broz started this thread with. Shooting the 220 Lazer's 3130 fps

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This is the 300 RUM Axial Precision Rifle Broz started this thread with. Shooting the 220 Lazer's 3130 fps

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3130 with 220s is no joke!. Are the advertised bcs holding true?
 

Spdrman

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3130 with 220s is no joke!. Are the advertised bcs holding true?
Typed all the info in my Sig 2400. Zeroed at 100 and there is a rock behind our range at 1220 yards. Hit it 3 for 3 so figured I could trust it! Now if I can find something to shoot at when its not a blizzard out side!

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3130 with 220s is no joke!. Are the advertised bcs holding true?

Wow, Great buck and congratulations!

Did you pull the lungs or just take photos of the entrance and exit? If you shoot another it be great to show just how these bullets preform on the inside, as entrance and exits don't tell the whole story.
 

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Wow, Great buck and congratulations!

Did you pull the lungs or just take photos of the entrance and exit? If you shoot another it be great to show just how these bullets preform on the inside, as entrance and exits don't tell the whole story.
Thank you! Weather sucked and it was only getting worse. Was planning on pulling the vitals out and taking pics but I just wanted to get back to the wall tent as quick as I could
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Put in for extra doe tags every year to take my kids out, shot this doe last night at 200 yards even. High shoulder shot she dropped in here tracks, exit hole wasnt quite like the buck I shot earlier this week, lungs where destroyed
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Deer #3 down with the axial 300 rum. Entrance was right behind the shoulder. Tyto knife is the picture of the entrance. Exit was off side shoulder and also picture by the bullet. He didnt make it 40 yards after the shot. Was trying to stay clean as possible where we still had 5 days of hunting left so didnt cut him open. He did cough up chunks of lungs though in his short ran after the shot
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So how do you feel these stack up to the Berger’s for a hunting bullet?
 

Broz

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So how do you feel these stack up to the Berger’s for a hunting bullet?

That is comparing two totally different bullet designs. So its a tough question that depends on what we as hunters like to see from our bullets. We have several rifles loaded up with CEB bullets now and we will get more data soon. But we really need some longer kills with the CEB Lazers to offer how they work at reduced impact velocities. They are advertised to open even at very low impact velocities. We have no reason to doubt this, but in the past, and with bullets from other manufacturers, expansion has been the concerns. So we need more testing.

In my opinion, and from what I have seen with others, The CEB Lazers are the best of design in all available solid copper lathe turned bullets out there. And they are among the absolute best in consistency and BC retention. This is proven by the ELR records that the Cutting Edge Lazers hold.

The place in my life where I hope they will fill a nitch for hunting is with some of my very fast rifles like the 300 Terminator and LRO 300 Magnum where muzzle velocities are 3200 to 3400 fps. These rifles bring a whole new set of criteria and show signs of some jacketed bullets ( like A Tips) being close to complete explosion at closer distances. The 245 Bergers were better, but we only have two elk with them and also need more sample data.

Sorry for the long winded post. But the short answer is we just need more time before we can offer a solid set of performance reports.

Jeff
 

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i just ordered some 200 gr lazers to try. was thinking a small 30 cal cartridge, load the bullets at a slow velocity and try on pigs so the impact would be down in the 1200-1400 range. wouldn't have the rpm's but if they worked at those velocities, more rpm's would only help.
 

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A few things from the last two days of shooting.

1: If you have mirage, and the aim point won't hold still, expect larger groups. I don't know how many times I have to learn that.

2: Velocity nodes are important, and never forget to adjust neck tension. I reduced group sized to 1/2 with .001" less neck tension. This is why we anneal. I had to repeat the test twice to be sure.

So I have the CEB Lasers in a reasonably wide node, where average Velocities with up to .5 gr charger weights are the same. ES is pretty much single digit on average. The last groups were ES of 6, 8, and 13.

A final zero check then on to a little BC calculations.

Jeff

20190403_173149_zpsspquqm3a.jpg
What seating depth was this load at? Also what seating depths are you finding the cutting edge bullets like in your other rifles you’ve tested?
 

Broz

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What seating depth was this load at? Also what seating depths are you finding the cutting edge bullets like in your other rifles you’ve tested?

The CEB lathe turned solids with a seal tight band do not seat off the lands like cup core bullets. You only have seated deep where the seal tight band is almost touching the case mouth, and out .020"~.025" where the seal tight band is touching the start of the throat. I have seen good results with them seated with the seal tight band touching the beginning of the throat.
 

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The CEB lathe turned solids with a seal tight band do not seat off the lands like cup core bullets. You only have seated deep where the seal tight band is almost touching the case mouth, and out .020"~.025" where the seal tight band is touching the start of the throat. I have seen good results with them seated with the seal tight band touching the beginning of the throat.
I’m working up loads with the 200gr lazers right now and am in a velocity node but they aren’t grouping very tight. I’m seating them .0025” off the lands, I’m going to try .025” off next to see if it tightens them up. The bullets came with a note saying typically loads like .000-.005” or .020”-.030” off the lands. I have room for more seating depth as well while still leaving the seal tite band above the case neck.
 

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Is there anymore terminal data to share?
Have a few Cow tags I'm hoping to fill in the next couple weeks and will post when the tags get filled. Hoping to stretch the range a little on them but the elk have to be on private property so we'll see how it goes

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i just ordered some 200 gr lazers to try. was thinking a small 30 cal cartridge, load the bullets at a slow velocity and try on pigs so the impact would be down in the 1200-1400 range. wouldn't have the rpm's but if they worked at those velocities, more rpm's would only help.
Any update? Thanks.
 

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