Broz
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And here is the latest from our friends at Berger. 6.5mm 144 Grain Long Range Hybrid Target
Berger's New 144 gr 6.5 Hybrid Target
- Thread starter Broz
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Broz
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Like always we will wade in slowly. The 215 / 30 cal hybrid is a killing machine, so I have hopes for these. Not sure I will venture away from the 156 for the PRC's, bit these might be a great match for a Creed.
The form factor is insane. I can't wait to try them.
Ladd
LRO Field Editor/Precision Hand loading Specialist
My Christensen Arms Ridgeline 6.5 Creedmor shoots the Berger 140 gr VLD so well I don't think I'll be moving away from them unless for a good reason. And since I developed a load I like a lot with the 156 in my 6.5 PRC the Creedmor may have been relegated to coyotes. I like the options though.
HuntnPack
Member
These will get a test run in my shorty PRC. 👍
Could always try annealing the front end of these bullets to ensure they react on impact more like the "Hunting" Berger variants do .... or tend to do, i.e. penetrate not very far in before fragmenting violently??
ATB ..... and shoot safely
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The idea/thought of annealing bullets is absolutely ludacris. IF we do find poor expansion with the LRHTs the best coarse of action will be to try to drill the tips. IF they are too small to drill, such is the case with the 190s, trimming meplats will be the answer.
As I mentioned in the other thread similar to this ("Bullet Jacket Comparison!") my suggestion simply originates from an article I read a year or two back that I recalled for that (and this) thread. The Author mentions it as a possible method of increasing the killing power of Berger bullets. Seem to recall he also mentions Meplat Trimming too?
It is NOT something I personally do, though it might be worth a twirl just to see if it makes any diff. at all. Be interesting if it does make a positive change (as the article implied) and hell, we have enough time on our hands at this moment in time to play about more with our loads now should we lean that way....
ATB ..... and shoot safely
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It is NOT something I personally do, though it might be worth a twirl just to see if it makes any diff. at all. Be interesting if it does make a positive change (as the article implied) and hell, we have enough time on our hands at this moment in time to play about more with our loads now should we lean that way....
ATB ..... and shoot safely
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coshank
Member
How do you/we test the effectiveness of this bullet for hunting applications? I have been shooting Hornady Precision Hunter out of my CA Ridgeline as it loves that round and have had great performance on deer. With the ammo shortage, I picked up a bunch of the Berger 144gr Hybrid ammo when it was came in stock before it sold out again. Most of my whitetail hunting is in the southeast with shots no further than 200 yards. Would this be an ethical distance to "test" the effectiveness on deer or are tests conducted on ballistic gel before being used on animals?
If that's a total amateur question, I apologize. I'm still learning to reload and right now factor ammo is shooting just as good as reloads (obviously still have some work to do). Thank for any advice!
Broz
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It's a great question. I think about this all the time as I often test new bullets. I just think we have to go in with some reservation. Like I would only take good shots, broadside where I was very confident with placement. I would also prefer to take shots in the morning or mid-day so I had ample daylight left if I needed to track one down.
coshank
Member
Thank you Jeff. If I'm presented with an opportunity to take that type of shot, I will take it and report back. If I recover the animal, I will post pictures in the terminal performance section.
Really appreciate this forum. No shortage of wisdom here.
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Will these be offered in a factory offering? I don't reload, but would be more than willing to give them a go on whitetails. Both deer I shot this year with my CM were at 250/186 respectively. Both broadside shots.
Those were both shot with 143 ELD-X. Had bullet size entry and quarter to slightly larger than quarter size exits. Wouldn't mind trying other bullets.
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Those were both shot with 143 ELD-X. Had bullet size entry and quarter to slightly larger than quarter size exits. Wouldn't mind trying other bullets.
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muleystalker
Active member
Berger is loading the the 144's in 6.5 Creedmoor, the 153.5 in Creedmoor and the 156's in the Creedmoor. Not sure if they are going to load any other cartridges with them, since Lapua is suppose to start making 6.5 PRC brass there is a chance they may start producing loads for the PRC I imagine.
XTREMHTR16
Well-known member
Yep all in Lapua LRP brass.
I was chatting with Lance Kenyon about them on another forum, he’s using them on antelope and deer and they’re working well; however, he is using a pin drill to make sure the tips are open.
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Are these out yet? I imagine with how ammo is now, it will be hard to get my hands on some.
***Disregard*** sorry. I asked before I searched online.
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I‘ll be taking them loaded in factory ammo hunting for antelope the day after tomorrow. I will most likely shoot some prairie dogs early and then look for some coyotes while looking for the antelope herds. That said, those should give a pretty decent idea of expansive properties of that bullet. I have shot the 109’s in the 6 CM, and they have killed coyotes well to over 500. Very similar design. I do still have a cow elk tag, along with a lion tag. If it works well on the antelope and others, it shouldn’t be an issue for a broadside cow within 500 or so.
Works like all the other Berger flavors. No surprises. Exit pictured. 3 legged 40 yard dash with a spin or two and down.
625 in 15-20 mph wind. Factory Berger ammo. 2825 out of my 6.5 CM HAVAK.
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625 in 15-20 mph wind. Factory Berger ammo. 2825 out of my 6.5 CM HAVAK.
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OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Very nice! I want to get ahold of some of the 144 factory ammo to try.
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OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Were you shooting the 144's or the heavier pills mentioned earlier?Works like all the other Berger flavors. No surprises. Exit pictured. 3 legged 40 yard dash with a spin or two and down.
625 in 15-20 mph wind. Factory Berger ammo. 2825 out of my 6.5 CM HAVAK.
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OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Nice! I'm shooting factory 143 ELD-X's right now. I'm happy with that weight in my gun. Did you find the 144's recently somewhere?
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If the interweb is correct I will have 200 of these in a week or two. I was finally able to order some 6.5 bullets I think will be good for Mule deer. It only took 3 months of obsessively checking the 36 windows I have open in my phone to make it happen. Has anyone else been able to test these on flesh?
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DEW
Well-known member
Any other kills with these?
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
What is the furthest range you have taken game with the 144's?
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XTREMHTR16
Well-known member
I was checking with lance kenyon and he killed an animal or two with the 144. Drilled to tips to ensure they were open, he said they killed fine.
I think the antelope in question was 625-ish. Fist sized exit on the offside shoulder. Ribs onside. Lost that offside quarter, but that’s all my fault. I didn’t want to wait for a perfect broadside shot, as it was the end of a hard day, and they were feeding away from us.
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OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
I've got some of these coming. What size drill are you using to drill the tips?
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XTREMHTR16
Well-known member
I‘m not using them, I’ll check with Lance. Likely a .040 bit
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Just got my Berger 144 ammo in. I inspected them and noticed the tips are not very consistent. The meplat is good on some, others not.
Does anyone have any recommendations on how to make these as uniform as possible? Is drilling the tips out, the only thing or can you trim them all together with a meplat trimmer? Just inquiring what is best to maximize time and effort for results down range.
Does anyone have any recommendations on how to make these as uniform as possible? Is drilling the tips out, the only thing or can you trim them all together with a meplat trimmer? Just inquiring what is best to maximize time and effort for results down range.
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Anybody have any ideas?
Broz
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Load them and shoot them. The uneven tips are normal and effect nothing.
Yoteklr
Active member
I agree with Jeff, it won't hurt anything. However, I've found that by tumbling my bullets for HBN application that the tips are uniformed quite a bit.
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Ok thanks gents!
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Broz, is there a need to open them up any more for hunting applications?
Broz
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I have not done any terminal performance testing on the Long Range Hybrid Targets. But here is what I would suggest. If the hole is .027" or bigger, I would try them first. If you do want to open them up, a little does a lot and you don't want to go the other way and make them explosive. So maybe only a few thousands.
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Thanks Broz. I'll measure them and go from there.
XTREMHTR16
Well-known member
Lance Kenyon has killed a few with the 144 and I think he drills the tips open
Spreedizzle
Well-known member
I’ve always chased my Berger’s with a hand held micro bit drill driver. Call me OCD....but I like the perfectionist idea of hand loading. It is also very easy to tell doing this when some of the lead core has flowed into the tip and clear it out.
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OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Did you confirm that Lance is using a .040 drill?
XTREMHTR16
Well-known member
No I didn’t ask him yet but will this morning.
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XTREMHTR16
Well-known member
Yep. a #60 wire bit. .040"
OSOK - Crash
Well-known member
Thanks for checking! Really appreciate it!
Broz
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That is pretty good sized.
SteveBurton
New member
I used them out of my 6.5 PRC last year on 2 PA whitetails. Both deer were less than 50 yards so I can't comment on long distance performance. The buck was 30 yards, quartering towards me, while chasing a doe. Bullet went in the right front shoulder and exited the left rear flank. DRT The bullet didn't hit any bone on it's travels so exit wound was 1/2" or so with no bloodshot meat. The doe was 50 yards, stopped and gave me a broadside shot. Shot was a little high and hit a few ribs but another DRT. Wicked exit wound with lots of bloodshot. Lance actually developed this load for me and opened the tips. I will be using them again this year.