Berger 230 OTM terminal performance

[Gabulldog91]

Been shooting the 225 eldm out of my 300 prc but I've been thinking about trying some of the berger 230 otm. What's everyone's experience with them and what kind of performance could I expect with them?

 

[Broz]

We have killed everything from antelope to elk with them. They work great for us. I like to use them in larger cases like a RUM or 300 Lapua and maybe a 30 Nosler but I would prefer the 215 in the Nosler and some smaller cases.

 

[Goosedog02]

We run them out of two 300 RUM's. One rum is running them at 2950 with N570 and the other is 2800(ish) with H1000. Fantastic performance so far. Our furthest is 500 yards on elk and it does just fine. We did however not chase FPS and strictly went after accuracy. Very easy to find sub 1/2 moa and devastating results on both elk and deer. Whitetails from 20 yards to 766 yards, with every one being pass through. Elk from 150 yards to 500 yards, with only a handful being pass throughs, but complete and very adequate internal damage. Don't let the difference between OTM and regular hybrid deter you, fantastic results.

 

[FURMAN]

Can you provide more details of your personal experience?

 

[Broz]

Wow, This is 100% opposite than my personal experiences. I too would like to hear your personal experiences and how many sample data points you have? Do you have any picturers? I don't have an exact count but I know we have taken over a couple dozen elk with the 230's alone and countless elk with the 300 OTM's. I shot a bear at 1702 yards with the 338 Terminator and a 300 OTM, exit was 1" to 1 1/4" and that impact velocity was about 1650 fps. The differences between the two "Hunting" / "Target" are only a few thousands of jacket thickness. Literally like .003". I have never seen that to make any differences. If I had to put a number on the total of elk we have taken with the 230 and 300 OTM I would say it could be 100 plus. The year we hosted the management hunts my 338 Terminator with a 300 OTM was a big player. We took 107 elk that season right here on 4 local ranches and I was there for every one of them.

 

[Goosedog02]

The 230 OTM and 230 Hybrid bullets are the same exact bullet, FYI. The only difference is the OTM is shortened to feed reliable from a mag. I too would be interested in your experience with them. My medium sized doe that I shot at 766 yards showed very reliable expansion, same thing with every elk we have taken. My sample size is much lower than Broz. We have taken around 75 deer and elk with them.

 

[Mike D Texas]

This is good to hear because is looks like I’m going to be using the 230 OTM or the 220 LRHT, whichever shoots better in my 300NMI when I get it out together.


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[Longtine88]

Hmmmmm. I’d love to hear about your shots.

Most of mine with them are DRT or they might go about the same distance as a snail can travel in 1 minute and that is if he’s running from a coon!!!

 

[JTH]

I can’t tell you anything about terminal performance yet, but have read a lot of positive reports here and elsewhere. Hope to have terminal info later this Fall. I just developed a load for the 230 OTM in my 300 PRC. Found a decent grouping load pretty quickly with a little help from the folks here. Running 2870 fps in a 24” barrel. The group below was 600 yards, wind was gusty and erratic, from almost still to 12 mph gusts and everything in between. Holding for wind, my aim point was the left edge of the thin orange circle in line with the bull. The group above with the stickers was one more click for elevation, pretty consistent. Advertised BC seems to be right on.

Do the tips need to have a wire bit run into them to improve terminal performance, or can they be left as is?

 

[Broz]

Do the tips need to have a wire bit run into them to improve terminal performance, or can they be left as is?

I like to just check tips to be open on the hunting rounds. You can get a torch tip cleaner with small bits from Amazon for about $12 and hopefully it will have a .027" bit. That size will insure no clogging from the mfg. process and not open the hole up any.

 

[BlackTail]

Guessing he won’t be able to provide any more details since he copied verbatim this post from Mike at Hells Canyon from over on Rokslide. $100 says he’s a scammer getting his post count.

 

[Magnett]

Good catch!

 

[FURMAN]

Lol! Most people claiming poor bullet performance can’t back it up with actual facts or even anecdotal evidence.

 

[BlackTail]

I shoot a 30 Nosler throated for the 230’s. Couldn’t find the Hybrid’s so started researching the OTM’s. I vividly remember Mike’s post as being the only negative I found about the OTM’s. When I read that post here I was like Mike??? Wait, he’s not from Georgia!! 😂

The rest of the posts from the guy on here with any “substance” are all copy and paste from other sites. Scammer!!

Don’t have any reports to add for the 230’s. Breaking my barrel in now with the 212 ELD-X ‘cause they’re cheap and easy to find. Once I get a box down the barrel I’ll be switching to the 230 OTM’s and N570!

 

[Broz]

I had a hunch. We have been watching him and I had his permissions blocked for DM's and Classifieds indefinitely.

So, thread cleaned up, scammer banned, posts removed, and we carry on without the azzhat.
Thanks for the help friends.

Rokslide has been alerted as well.

 

[OSOK - Crash]

I had a hunch. We have been watching him and I had his permissions blocked for DM's and Classifieds indefinitely.

So, thread cleaned up, scammer banned, posts removed, and we carry on without the azzhat.
Thanks for the help friends.

Rokslide has been alerted as well.

Good looking out Jeff!

 

[jmyers]

What a great forum. Thanks Broz

 

[Goosedog02]

Yes, thank you for watching out for us and taking care of a great forum!

 

[Ladd]

I had a hunch. We have been watching him and I had his permissions blocked for DM's and Classifieds indefinitely.

So, thread cleaned up, scammer banned, posts removed, and we carry on without the azzhat.
Thanks for the help friends.

Rokslide has been alerted as well.

Geez. A guy goes dark in Wyoming for a few days and misses all the excitement around here.

 

[JTH]

Just an added note on the terminal performance with the 230 OTM for future reference. Ryan Pierce (Piercision Rifles) smoked a giant coastal brown bear with the 230 OTM a couple days ago. I think he’s running them in a 300 NMI. Watched the video today, I was really impressed with how fast it put the bear down.

 

[Goosedog02]

JTH, can the video be found somewhere or just a personal vid?

Thanks,

 

[JTH]

I can’t figure out how to post a video. He’s got a full account of it with photos on his instagram page. The video is very impressive.

 

[Quicksilver]

It is impressive, one shot in the vitals had the bear biting and spinning, second shot it was broadside and dropped it and it never moved again.

 

[rpierce]

Thanks guys. heres a link to the video

 

[rpierce]

First shot went between his two shoulders when he turned towards us and destroyed his internal organs. Second shot was an insurance policy but not necessary. I know the bullet vaporized his lungs without even cutting him open. The wolf I shot at 75 yds was broadside and hit right behind the crease of the shoulder. Exit hole was the size of a baseball. Bear was at 150 yds when shot. I also shot a aoudad at 400 yds with my 300 prc and 230 otms going 2750 fps at the muzzle. Aoudad was quartering away and I hit right in front of his rear quarter and lodged the remaining weight of 70 gr of bullet between the skin on the opposing shoulder. It had shed 160 gr of its weight in the vitals of the animal. It took a step and fell over. Ive also shot antelope with this bullet out to 600 in my norma improved w 230 otm. Bang flop. Big exit holes. I do run a .040 wire drill bit into the meplats.

 

[Goosedog02]

Great shot and video! I use a .040 wire drill bit as well. No issues with them on any animal that we have taken with them.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Congrats Ryan!


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[Trollswatter]

First shot went between his two shoulders when he turned towards us and destroyed his internal organs. Second shot was an insurance policy but not necessary. I know the bullet vaporized his lungs without even cutting him open. The wolf I shot at 75 yds was broadside and hit right behind the crease of the shoulder. Exit hole was the size of a baseball. Bear was at 150 yds when shot. I also shot a aoudad at 400 yds with my 300 prc and 230 otms going 2750 fps at the muzzle. Aoudad was quartering away and I hit right in front of his rear quarter and lodged the remaining weight of 70 gr of bullet between the skin on the opposing shoulder. It had shed 160 gr of its weight in the vitals of the animal. It took a step and fell over. Ive also shot antelope with this bullet out to 600 in my norma improved w 230 otm. Bang flop. Big exit holes. I do run a .040 wire drill bit into the meplats.

Ryan on the 300 PRC shooting the 230 what was your barrel length?

 

[JTH]

I can answer that, I bought that specific 300 PRC from Ryan, it’s a 24” barrel. I think he was using H1000 with that load, I got the 230 OTM’s to 2870 with N570 in the same rifle. Killed an elk, an antelope and a coyote with it in Montana using the 230 OTM’s last fall. It was admittedly extreme overkill on the antelope and coyote, but helped me to get some first hand experience on how this bullet performs. I was impressed.

 

[Trollswatter]

I can answer that, I bought that specific 300 PRC from Ryan, it’s a 24” barrel. I think he was using H1000 with that load, I got the 230 OTM’s to 2870 with N570 in the same rifle. Killed an elk, an antelope and a coyote with it in Montana using the 230 OTM’s last fall. It was admittedly extreme overkill on the antelope and coyote, but helped me to get some first hand experience on how this bullet performs. I was impressed.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Hopefully I will find out how they do an Axis buck in 2 weeks.


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[pluckem]

Anyone know if there would be major differences between the 230 hybrid and 230 OTM in terms of expansion and terminal performance?

I had a less than stellar experience with a 230 Hybrid this past season. Id share the details here, but don't want to sidetrack the thread if it really isn't applicable.

 

[Broz]

Anyone know if there would be major differences between the 230 hybrid and 230 OTM in terms of expansion and terminal performance?

I had a less than stellar experience with a 230 Hybrid this past season. Id share the details here, but don't want to sidetrack the thread if it really isn't applicable.

Berger doesn't really recommend either as a "Hunting" bullet which indicates a thicker jacket that should result in less expansion at lower impact velocities. However many of us have learned to pretty much ignore that. We have taken dozens of big game animals with both. I prefer to only use the 230's and 245's in cartridges that are large enough to get good velocity. If you are loading them in a smaller case and experiencing lower velocity then I would look at the 215, 20020X , 208 or 220 etc. If you have one single experience that was less that desirable I would not make a decision on a single sample data. Especially from a bullet than so many report great results from. Its hunting. No two shots or impacts are ever the same. Results will always vary from shot to shot and animal to animal. No two animals are in the same health, hide thickness, muscle mass , bone on impact, no bone etc. Same with entry angle, impact velocity and so on.

 

[pluckem]

Berger doesn't really recommend either as a "Hunting" bullet which indicates a thicker jacket that should result in less expansion at lower impact velocities. However many of us have learned to pretty much ignore that. We have taken dozens of big game animals with both. I prefer to only use the 230's and 245's in cartridges that are large enough to get good velocity. If you are loading them in a smaller case and experiencing lower velocity then I would look at the 215, 20020X , 208 or 220 etc. If you have one single experience that was less that desirable I would not make a decision on a single sample data. Especially from a bullet than so many report great results from. Its hunting. No two shots or impacts are ever the same. Results will always vary from shot to shot and animal to animal. No two animals are in the same health, hide thickness, muscle mass , bone on impact, no bone etc. Same with entry angle, impact velocity and so on.

Appreciate the response and appreciate the effort and sharing the "many" that you referenced have done on the Berger offerings. I have spent countless hours in the past reviewing these types of threads to make my bullet selection. They are all helpful and really its the reason I figured maybe Id share my experience maybe Ill learn something or maybe someone else can take something away from it.

I have been shooting the 230 hybrid out of a 300 NMI for the last 4-5 years. MZ velocity at 3020fps. Have had great terminal performance on moose, elk, deer, and antelope. This was a single experience on a cow elk, but does have me questioning my bullet choice moving forward.

I had a small bull and cow bedded and sat on them mid afternoon for about an hour waiting for the cow to standup. First shot was at 525yds, pretty much straight broadside. Shot felt good but was solo and didn't get to spot the impact in the scope. Trees were thick and window was tight. Lost the cow I shot at for a split second and split second later a cow ran from the same group of thick trees and stopped about 30yds away in a much larger opening and stood there looking back at the cover the elk were bedded in. At this point I had no idea if that cow was the same one I shot at, did I miss? The bull never got out of his bed but I couldn't see him either.

At this point I was studying the cow elk for any indication that it was the same one I shot at before... blood, entrance hole, etc. The cow standing there looked unharmed, so at that point I started scanning the area and trees looking for any sign of a dead elk in the pockets and small openings in the trees. I was on an opposite ridgeline so I was able to work the ridgeline and get different angles into the small openings hoping to turn up some hide in my spotting scope.

Best guess is 4-5 minutes passed, I'm now 450 yds away, no sign of a dead elk, the bull I knew was bedded in there never got up or came out, and that cow that was standing there never moved an inch. Still just looking back into the cover. At this point I played out all the details in my head over and over and had high confidence that cow standing there was the one I originally shot at. I must have just missed.

So I dialed for the 450yd second shot. This time she was quartering away. Sent it, she immediate hunched her back up and then started stumbling, few seconds later stumbled down some elevation and crashed into the bottom. The bull also got up after the second shot and trotted away. It was just those two in there.

It wasn't until I started skinning her that I realized I hit her with both shots. Entrance holes were within an inch of each other. Maybe a touch high, but I was shooting down on her. Entrance holes were just behind front shoulder. Exit of the second shot clipped the front shoulder on the way out with the quartering away angle.

From what I could tell the first shot just never expanded. Even so, I cant believe how she just stood there for 4 minutes like nothing was wrong. I am thankful that bull stayed bedded after the first shot. That's likely the only reason she never left. Otherwise she would have been over the ridge in 60 seconds of a slow trot with no blood trail and no indication of a hit.

I am meticulous in my bullet prep, like many others on here, using a micro drill bit and run it through every bullet. I pay extra attention to my rounds in the field making sure no tip damage occurs.

I am interested to hear others thoughts on this.

Actually had the intensions of moving to the Berger 220 (mostly because it was the only option I could get my hands on between the 215/220/230), but also because the 230 terminal performance WAS great up to this point. I realize the 220 is pointed and introduces another concern, but have seen some success on kill shots with it.

Is 3020fps too slow for the 230? I should be able to find an accurate and mild load with the 215 around 3150fps. I have seen others with the same chambering and barrel pushing the 215s 3200-3245fps with N570.

Also considering testing out the 195gr badlands bulldozer monolithics.

 

[Broz]

With all due respect, it happens and can happen with any bullet. We calculated the number of elk kills I have been on in the last 11 years of managing a Montana ranch. We came up with a number of 275 as near as we could predict. 106 during a management hunt where we allowed cows shot by depredation hunters. But I was there for every one. Elk are tough creatures. Very tough. It truly amazes me how tough. Judging from your entrance and exit holes in the hide, and not being able to see the wound channel, I think the bullets both expanded if I am looking correctly. I also think the elk was dead but understand what you went through. I have been in these situations before. I have seen elk shot, then they get back in the herd and you have no idea which one it was. Then when they tip over the herd spooks way more from the fall than they did from the shot. But elk can be dead on their feet and stand there for what seems to us as an eternity. You can change bullets if you want, but from your prior experiences I would not. And I really don't see a problem with this kill either. The problem was the circumstances that made for a very uncomfortable situation. I would have been to. But that cow was not going far.

Edit to add: 3020 fps is plenty good velocity for either 230.

I had this happen to me a while back. Totally blew my mind. But it is what it is, and I am not changing anything because no bullet could have done better in my opinion. The fact is every impact is different and every hunt and kill is different. Take a read at this one.

Just How Tough are Elk Really?

We do kill a lot of elk on the ranch I manage. I think I am only at about 10 so far this year, but the year we did a game management hunt I was there for the taking of 76 just on this ranch and others elsewhere. So you may have heard me say things like. "Elk are amazingly tough" "Elk will...

www.longrangeonly.com

 

[Goosedog02]

I'm shooting the 230's out of my RUM and my Dad's RUM. My RUM is pushing them at 2955 and my Dad's RUM at 2800. We've killed elk at 500 yards with nothing but stellar performance. Your FPS is plenty for a long way out there.

 

[pluckem]

I should have explained the photos a bit more. File names 5, 6, 7 are the exits holes, with #7 being a close up of the exit of the first shot. That hole's diameter through the rib cavity is basically .308" in diameter. That is the main reason I believed the bullet lacked expansion.

I don't disagree with your comments that it was likely a dead elk standing after the first shot. Bullet went through both lungs. I was just thinking about how far that elk could have ran in that 4-5 minutes, but it didn't! If it did take off maybe it bleeds out faster, or shows more signs of being hit or hurt.

You have been a part of more elk kills than I dream about so that doesn't go unnoticed. Maybe I am interpreting the exit wounds wrong. In the end, I haven't lost an animal with the 230gr yet and that might be what one should focus on.

 

[Broz]

Let me ask this then knowing what I know about how Bergers work and having seen so very many data points. I am sure after two of those went through the boiler room it was a mess in there, and we very well know that many times with so much expansion and fragmentation that many fragmenting bullets never exit at all at the these distances. Would you say it would be reasonable to consider with two well placed shots so close together that the smaller exit could possibly be from a large fragment or a piece of the lead core from one of the bullets? I ask this because the exit holes are so much farther apart than the entrances and I have seen small exits made from a fragment.

 

[Broz]

Please know I am not trying to convince you one way or the other. I am only offering another possible perspective.

 

[FURMAN]

I tried to read the entire thread but may have missed something. I have never seen a Berger not "expand"(I would not call it expansion but rather fragmentation) with literally countless kills. In almost all of my kills the lead core has exited. I think some perceive this as lack of expansion or "penciling". The copper jacket has peeled in almost all of my kills. This, in my educated opinion, is why they kill so quickly compared to bonded bullets.