Berger 184 vs 180 eldm on game

[Rhovee]

I’m new to the site, but not to reloading or long range shooting. I am having Alex Wheeler build me a 7 saum on a defiance medium length action. It’s throated long for 180 eldm to 195 Berger. I have both the 180 eldm and the new Berger 184 Hybrid target. Curious if anyone has used the 184 on animals. I cut one in half and it has a hollow point void of .345. To me this should expand.

 

[Browninglover1]

My SAUM has killed 2 yearling elk at an average shot distance of 1002.5 yards using the 180 ELDM. My spike took the Bullet right in the front of the near shoulder and lodged in the back of the offside shoulder; it was instant lights out. The jacket and core separated at the very end of the travel but total retained weight was 112 grains.

I have a friend that shoots a 7/300 Norma and he shot a nice bull around 300 yards with the 180s. The destruction was massive but the elk stayed on its feet long enough for him to pump off three shots. All shots passed thru if I remember correctly.

 

[Rhovee]

That’s some good info. They seemed pretty thin. But the fact it took a shoulder and still made it through sounds promising.

 

[Broz]

I sent some 184 Berger test bullets to 906Lapua (Luke) and I know he shot them. But I don't think he took any game with them.

I have extensively tested the Bergers in 7mm 168 VLD, 180 VLD , 180 Hybrid and 195 EH on elk. For sure my favorite was the 180 VLD for the most consistent results, great velocity and terminal performance. The 195's were too expansive for me, much like the 6.5 147 ELD M at close range I have results for. The other problem I found was from all my 7-300's I could get 3150 to 3200 with the 180 VLD and only 2950 from the 195's (same rifles) The velocity for BC trade was not worth it in external ballistics inside where I would shoot an elk with a 7mm. When all the smoke and hair had settled, I went back to a 300 win mag with a 215 at 3030 fps and stayed there until I built the 30 Nosler and now run them at 3100. I can get the same velocity with the 300 win / 215 with 570, but I have this rifle now and will use it up. It has proven to be very devastating on elk from 100 to 1200 yards. 95% one shot kills with dozens in the freezers.

Jeff

 

[Rhovee]

Thanks Jeff. This is a 24” very light saum mostly for hunting 600 and under. I also had a 30/28 Nosler and ran the 3100 node. I am
on the gunsmiths waiting list for a 300 NM improved. This will be more of a dedicated long range all around caliber using 215 Bergers.

 

[JoshHaker]

The second animal has fallen to the 184 Berger and my 7 Sherman Max. Today I shot a whitetail doe. 150 yards, 2900 fps muzzle velocity, broadside. Caliber sized entrance and rapid expansion. Exit was roughly golf ball sized. Heart was shreds. Dropped in its tracks.

 

[JoshHaker]

Copied from another thread. Mule deer buck. 7 Max 184 Berger Hybrid 2900 fps muzzle velocity. 450yds quartering towards me. Bullet entered at the point of the shoulder caliber sized and exited much lower (than a straight line so it must have been a fragment) breaking the offside leg and shoulder bone. Performance seemed typical of what I have seen with Berger bullets so far. Deer went maybe 20 yards or less.

 

[Rhovee]

Thanks for bringing this back up. I shot a deer at 475 this year with the 184’s. 1/2” entrance and 1” exit. Muzzle velocity was 2900 when fired. Worked great.

 

[JoshHaker]

184 Berger 2930 muzzle velocity
230 yds pronghorn
Broadside, in the crease, caliber sized entrance, exit slightly over golf ball.
Ran 40yds

 

[JoshHaker]

184 Berger 2930 muzzle velocity
Whitetail doe 60 yards
Shot placement slightly behind the crease double lung
Caliber sized entrance exit golfball sized

 

[Rhovee]

That’s perfect. I am hoping on similar results with the 180 hybrid. I have a 1:8.7 twist new Saum and the 184’s are border line stable (1.5 SG) in my location.

 

[FURMAN]

I shot a few more animals this fall with the Berger 184. It performs at least as good as the Berger 180s. Anyone else with post season data?

#berger184 #berger184hybrid

 

[Sendero72mag]

I shot a few more animals this fall with the Berger 184. It performs at least as good as the Berger 180s. Anyone else with post season data?

#berger184 #berger184hybrid

What rifle and powder are you using? I'm building a 7x300 win mag which will be ready by April. I have a box of the 184's I'd like to test.

 

[Gillettehunter]

I have used the 180 VLD's in Africa. Results were good enough that the PH's wanted to know what bullet I was using. Done very well last 2 trips over.
Bruce

 

[FURMAN]

What rifle and powder are you using? I'm building a 7x300 win mag which will be ready by April. I have a box of the 184's I'd like to test.

I’m shooting a 7 max but the cartridge is irrelevant. Impact velocities are what matters. I think you’ll like the 7-300wm.

 

[FURMAN]

I have used the 180 VLD's in Africa. Results were good enough that the PH's wanted to know what bullet I was using. Done very well last 2 trips over.
Bruce

We have tons of data with the 180 Bergers. I find it funny how many Africa phs hate Bergers until they see how they perform.

 

[Gillettehunter]

One of the PH's on my hunt last year in Tanzania had some negative Berger experiences. After seeing what I was doing he was interested in talking. When I explained what went wrong (at least in my opinion) and what I had done with mine he made a interesting comment. He said"I wouldn't have any concerns hunting with you using Bergers".
One of several issues was someone shooting high speed 180's in a 300WM. No penetration. Then the pencil through caused by not checking the tips.... I spent 3/4 of an hour educating him about them.
Bruce

 

[FURMAN]

One of the PH's on my hunt last year in Tanzania had some negative Berger experiences. After seeing what I was doing he was interested in talking. When I explained what went wrong (at least in my opinion) and what I had done with mine he made a interesting comment. He said"I wouldn't have any concerns hunting with you using Bergers".
One of several issues was someone shooting high speed 180's in a 300WM. No penetration. Then the pencil through caused by not checking the tips.... I spent 3/4 of an hour educating him about them.
Bruce

Most of the issues I’ve heard involving cup and core bullets are light for caliber bullets.

 

[Sendero72mag]

Most of the issues I’ve heard involving cup and core bullets are light for caliber bullets.

The same thing to me in Namibia in April last year. I was shooting the 180 gr ELDM's in my 7mag. We spotted a kudu at 920 yds and he's saying we need to get closer. My buddy who was spotting for me just said "watch this". At the crack of my rifle that kudu dropped like a rock. The guide just said never mind, you southern boys just do what you want to

 

[GSTEW1930]

Anymore updates with the 184?

 

[Lancetkenyon]

Anymore updates with the 184?

We have used them on elk. They work just as well as the 180 Hyb.

It is the only bullet I shoot in my 7SS. And I have swapped to them in my 7RM too. Because the 180 Hyb was non-existant for a couple years, and I was running extremely low.

 

[GSTEW1930]

We have used them on elk. They work just as well as the 180 Hyb.

It is the only bullet I shoot in my 7SS. And I have swapped to them in my 7RM too. Because the 180 Hyb was non-existant for a couple years, and I was running extremely low.

Awesome thanks Lance. You using N565 or RL23?

 

[Lancetkenyon]

Awesome thanks Lance. You using N565 or RL23?

In my 7SS, using H1000 and N565.
In my 7RM, using H1000.

 

[Sendero72mag]

Anymore updates with the 184?

Not yet. Covid put a damper on things and getting dies for my 7x300 win mag was way behind schedule.

 

[Sendero72mag]

We have tons of data with the 180 Bergers. I find it funny how many Africa phs hate Bergers until they see how they perform.

I’m shooting a 7 max but the cartridge is irrelevant. Impact velocities are what matters. I think you’ll like the 7-300wm.

Finally received my 7x300 and dies yesterday. Spent the day sizing brass. It's a 27 3/4" Hart barrel. Do you know where I can find a "modified case"? Sure makes it easier to seat bullet depth.

 

[FURMAN]

Nobody makes a case you will have to make your own.

 

[Ladd]

Making one should be easy by taking the 300 win mag modified case and necking it down. That should work I would think.

 

[Sendero72mag]

Nobody makes a case you will have to make your own.

How do you thread the case head?

 

[FURMAN]

Drill out the primer pocket with a .290 HSS bit then tap with a 5/16x36 tap.

 

[Sendero72mag]

Drill out the primer pocket with a .290 HSS bit then tap with a 5/16x36 tap.

Thanks for the info Furman.

 

[Sendero72mag]

Drill out the primer pocket with a .290 HSS bit then tap with a 5/16x36 tap.

Thanks.

 

[JoshHaker]

184 Hybrid 2926 fps
Bull Elk 100 yards
Point of the shoulder quartering to the left
Entrance caliber sized. Completely destroyed the ball joint meeting the scapula. Went 10 yards and was down. Upon approach he stood up. 2nd shot Broke the other shoulder. Finished with a shot to the neck. This was not the shot I was looking for but this is what I was given. I wanted broadside because elk are tough! But I only had a very narrow window and didn’t want him to leave it. More penetration would have been a good thing in this instance. That being said the elk died quickly and only went maybe 30 yards. I’m with Broz Elk are best suited to .30 and up. This bullet has proven phenomenal on smaller sized game. Would I use it on elk again? Yes. I would try to stay away from hard bone.

 

[Sendero72mag]

Drill out the primer pocket with a .290 HSS bit then tap with a 5/16x36 tap.

I order the bit and tap yesterday. Thanks

 

[Sendero72mag]

I order the bit and tap yesterday. Thanks

Parts were ordered and a modified case has been made. Reloading will begin in a couple of days.

 

[dthomas]

What powder is being used in the 7 saum to get over 2900 with the 184 in a hunting rifle?

 

[Rhovee]

The 7 Saums that I have built are on XM or Long actions. Great node at 2900 with multiple powders. H1000, N565, RL 23, H4831SC, RL16. RL26 will take it up higher than that.

 

[dthomas]

Thanks. Mine is also built on an xm length action. I want to try r23 but haven't been able to find any. I have been running h4350 because that is what i had. I'm using a 162 gr bullet right now but I have some 180 & 184 bergers to try as soon as I get a hold of some slower powder.